[DWJ] Dwj Digest, Changeover & Rivers of London

Marjorie Taylor marjorie_taylor at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 7 14:05:59 EST 2011


I read 'Rivers of London' - found it a bit disappointing as I felt there were a lot f missed opportunities to explore new ideas, plus I found it a bit predictable. I prefer Mike Carey's 'Felix Castor' novels which have a similar dark urban fantasy idea going on but which are, in my view, more imaginative. (although I don't think I'd describe either as DWJesque, and don't feel RofL is as good as Mieville or Gaiman, either. Ill probably borrow the sequel if it comes to my Li rary but won't be buying it!

Re: Changeover - wasn't this a  early book, written before DWJ had had anything published?

> From: dwj-request at suberic.net
> Subject: Dwj Digest, Vol 73, Issue 4
> To: dwj at suberic.net
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:00:01 -0500
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Rivers of London ( Sally Odgers )
>    2. Re: Rivers of London (Robert at steelbeach.co.uk)
>    3. Re: Rivers of London (Andrea H?st)
>    4. Re: Changeover? (Kylie Ding)
>    5. Re: Rivers of London (Kait Bessing)
>    6. Re: Rivers of London (Robert at steelbeach.co.uk)
>    7. Re: Changeover? (Kyra Jucovy)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:22:22 +1100
> From: " Sally Odgers " <sally at sallyodgers.com>
> Subject: [DWJ] Rivers of London
> To: Diana Wynne Jones discussion <dwj at suberic.net>,	Otter Perry
> 	<ottertee at silverwinggraphics.com>
> Message-ID: <20111107112222.u0ptut8ce8444440 at webmail.cs.aplus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=UTF-8;	format="flowed"
> 
> Has anyone read the book called Rivers of London? SOunds somewhat DWJish. 
> 
> Sally Odgers
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 00:44:31 +0000
> From: Robert at steelbeach.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Rivers of London
> To: "Diana Wynne Jones discussion" <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID: <58103.1320626671 at steelbeach.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> On Mon 07/11/11 00:22 , "Sally Odgers" <sally at sallyodgers.com> wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone read the book called Rivers of London? SOunds somewhat
> > DWJish. 
> 
> I've read it and the sequel. It's perhaps more China Mievilleish (though more lighthearted - lots of good jokes*) than DWJish. It's a mix of "magic realism" (or urban fantasy) and police procedural with a small amount of "learning magic".  Oh, and Jazz and hiddenLondon stuff, too.
> 
> I liked them, but I'm well-disposed towards light-hearted + urban fantasy + police procedural. I think there are a couple of elements that don't work as well as they might, but they're fun and different enough. (I'm not sure about "original", mind. But the mix is unusual).
> 
> Robert
> 
> *If you have a sense of humour like mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:19:45 +1100
> From: Andrea H?st <andreakhost at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Rivers of London
> To: Diana Wynne Jones discussion <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAOmCEDqDAjU7bR3emffXTMW8w+qL9yhzOcfwiDVBooE-p7SwdQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Just read it this week.  Enjoyable, but not remotely DWJ.  Closer to
> Gaiman and Mieville.  It reminded me strongly of reading a blog of a
> Brit Ambulance worker I used to read - very much the same tone.  A
> little emotionally distant, though.
> 
> On 07/11/2011, Sally Odgers <sally at sallyodgers.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone read the book called Rivers of London? SOunds somewhat DWJish.
> >
> > Sally Odgers
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dwj mailing list
> > Dwj at suberic.net
> > http://www.suberic.net/mailman/listinfo/dwj
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> 
> Andrea K Host
> andreakhost at gmail.com
> www.andreakhost.com
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:12:17 +0800
> From: Kylie Ding <kylie_ding at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Changeover?
> To: "'Diana Wynne Jones discussion'" <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID: <BAY155-ds4695EFF66E28B55AE4932E6D90 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I too found the large cast very confusing.  There were amusing moments, but
> I found it a real struggle to finish.  I'd put it aside and then not
> remember who was who and get bored.  Really, it's the sort of thing I'd only
> consider reading because DWJ wrote it!  It was interesting to see her early
> writing, but I don't think I'll ever read it again.
> 
> I found the most enjoyable part was the introduction that DWJ wrote for the
> edition Meredith published.
> 
> I am curious as to the history of the novel.  Does anyone who had studied or
> talked to DWJ know why she wrote a non-fantasy novel?  Did she think it
> would be easier to get a mainstream novel published?  I'm also curious as to
> what people think of it as a book.  I didn't think it was very good, but
> that could be because that's not a genre I read much of.  I think DWJ's
> fantasy works are much better, and I'm surprised she found a publisher for
> Changeover rather than her early fantasy work if she had finished
> manuscripts for any of those that she was also trying to get published.
> 
> I think I'll start reading Wilkins' Tooth tomorrow.  I know I'll enjoy that
> much more.
> 
> Byeeee,
> Kylie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:39:38 +0100
> From: "Kait Bessing" <kait.bessing at comhem.se>
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Rivers of London
> To: "Diana Wynne Jones discussion" <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID: <F379280764AF4DE888948F06BE9F2DD1 at ws32ly8rknz8u9j>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> And the author is....?
> 
> Kait - curious
> 
> Robert at steelbeach.co.uk wrote:
> > On Mon 07/11/11 00:22 , "Sally Odgers" <sally at sallyodgers.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Has anyone read the book called Rivers of London? SOunds somewhat
> >> DWJish.
> > 
> > I've read it and the sequel. It's perhaps more China Mievilleish
> > (though more lighthearted - lots of good jokes*) than DWJish. It's a
> > mix of "magic realism" (or urban fantasy) and police procedural with
> > a small amount of "learning magic".  Oh, and Jazz and hiddenLondon
> > stuff, too.    
> > 
> > I liked them, but I'm well-disposed towards light-hearted + urban
> > fantasy + police procedural. I think there are a couple of elements
> > that don't work as well as they might, but they're fun and different
> > enough. (I'm not sure about "original", mind. But the mix is
> > unusual).    
> > 
> > Robert
> > 
> > *If you have a sense of humour like mine.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dwj mailing list
> > Dwj at suberic.net
> > http://www.suberic.net/mailman/listinfo/dwj
> > 
> > 
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4600 - Release Date:
> > 11/06/11 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:42:01 +0000
> From: Robert at steelbeach.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Rivers of London
> To: "Diana Wynne Jones discussion" <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID: <5421.1320662521 at steelbeach.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> It's Ben Aaronovitch, who wrote a couple of stories for Doctor Who back in the 80's ("Remembrance of the Daleks" and "Battlefield", if you're interested*)
> 
> There's a website at: http://www.the-folly.com/
> 
> Robert
> 
> *unlikely, I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon 07/11/11 08:39 , "Kait Bessing" <kait.bessing at comhem.se> wrote:
> 
> > And the author is....?
> > Kait - curious
> > wrote:
> > > On Mon 07/11/11 00:22 , "Sally Odgers"  wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Has anyone read the book called Rivers of London? SOunds somewhat
> > >> DWJish.
> > > 
> > > I've read it and the sequel. It's perhaps more China Mievilleish
> > > (though more lighthearted - lots of good jokes*) than DWJish. It's
> > a
> > > mix of "magic realism" (or urban fantasy) and police procedural
> > with
> > > a small amount of "learning magic".  Oh, and Jazz and hiddenLondon
> > > stuff, too.    
> > > 
> > > I liked them, but I'm well-disposed towards light-hearted + urban
> > > fantasy + police procedural. I think there are a couple of
> > elements
> > > that don't work as well as they might, but they're fun and
> > different
> > > enough. (I'm not sure about "original", mind. But the mix is
> > > unusual).    
> > > 
> > > Robert
> > > 
> > > *If you have a sense of humour like mine.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dwj mailing list
> > > 
> > > http://www.suberic.net/mailman/listinfo/dwj
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4600 - Release Date:
> > > 11/06/11 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dwj mailing list
> > http://www.suberic.net/mailman/listinfo/dwj
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 20:16:18 +0800
> From: Kyra Jucovy <arykiy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DWJ] Changeover?
> To: Diana Wynne Jones discussion <dwj at suberic.net>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAGua9oyT_pNTxaeVTv7-s6VoE=TgaRYSxuK8B8kNM5_quC68bQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Kylie Ding <kylie_ding at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > would be easier to get a mainstream novel published?  I'm also curious as
> > to
> > what people think of it as a book.  I didn't think it was very good, but
> > that could be because that's not a genre I read much of.  I think DWJ's
> > fantasy works are much better, and I'm surprised she found a publisher for
> > Changeover rather than her early fantasy work if she had finished
> > manuscripts for any of those that she was also trying to get published.
> >
> > I guess I'll be the first to admit it - I actually quite like *Changeover*,
> but I do feel like it's something of a guilty pleasure.  Nonetheless,
> despite its obvious flaws, it's something that it just cheers me up to read
> every time I read it.  I think the writing style is obviously DWJ's, even
> if undeveloped, and I really enjoy chapter 23, which I find hilarious.  I
> even feel like the scene of Simon Aweyo's dream in that chapter where he
> remembers Roger Clarke-Challenger is in a way an early hint to DWJ's
> ability to mix humor with genuine numinous scenes, even if the focus is
> clearly on the humor here.  I think the book just fits my sense of humor,
> which makes sense to me, since I started loving DWJ early enough in my life
> that she could easily have been a major influence on my taste in humor.  I
> also admit to thinking that she does a good job of making Sgoya attractive
> ;-).
> 
> 
> 
> > Byeeee,
> > Kylie
> >
> >
> ---Kyra
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dwj mailing list
> > Dwj at suberic.net
> > http://www.suberic.net/mailman/listinfo/dwj
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of Dwj Digest, Vol 73, Issue 4
> **********************************
 		 	   		  


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