Fructophilia (was: Changing words)

Ven vendersleighc at
Mon Feb 9 21:21:07 EST 2004

Jodel explained

<My understanding is that there were originally 
about three basic varieties of 
oranges, one with close-fitting skins, one where 
the skins are loose and not 
closely attached to the fruit and one other which

has fallen out of my head 
(bitter oranges?)>

The bitter ones are Seville oranges, aka
marmalade oranges they also make a very nice
They're in season right now, mmmmm home made

Me asking Gili about berries

 <Is it that
> some of these aren't available in Israel or 
> they really are considered to be the same 


<Both. Most berries aren't grown in our climate, 
and possibly as a result,
there is a lot of confusion in the terminology.>

I have now identified the source of my own
confusion as well -- I knew it was ethnocentric
to expect everyone to classify fruit the same way
I do but I was labouring under the unexamined
assumption that the fruit trade between Israel
and Britain  was somehow symmetrical. I sort of
thought that because there are Israeli citruses,
peaches etc in my local supermarket there must be
British gooseberries in Gili's. Dearie dearie me.

(and before anyone comments I do realise it's
rare to see fresh gooseberries, let alone
bilberries in Tescos). 

<There are correct terms for
scientific use, but in popular use, i.e. the 
labels on packages in
supermarkets, I've seen the same word 
("uchmaniot") applied to blueberries,
currants, cranberries and raspberries; 
blackberries and raspberries are both
called "petel", and distinguished only by color; 
strawberries and mulberries
are both called "toot" and distinguished by an 
additional reference to where
they were grown ("field toot" or "tree toot"). 
I've never even seen
gooseberries or bilberries and I needed to 
crossreference several sources
for a description of them, as well as dewberries 
and barberries. The general
term for all berries is "gargerei ya'ar": "fruit 
of the forest" or "kernels
of the forest".> 

Mixtures of berry fruit are commonly called
fruits of the forest in the UK too, or hedgerow
fruits which always seemed to me to have
unfortunate connotations of twigs and litter.

<My solution involved using every 
single synonym I could dig
up, as well as the general term for berries with 
various qualifiers, and yes
I did the same for the plums, whilst trying my 
best to keep the whole thing
musical and not too monotonous.>

The more I hear about translating the more I
admire the art of it.

<I'm trying to think of an obDWJ, and remembering

this bit of poor
translation from "A Tale of Time City":

"One large blacksmith threw four coffins 
about"... "one got rusty for
smoothing clothes. Two became white in moderately

cheap jewelry. Three of
them turned yellow and got expensive, and another

four were dense and low in
the tables..."

Trust DWJ to drop the most important clues during

the comic relief!>

Tee hee. I'm not fond of Time City, but not being
able to remember what this was really about is
making think I may reread. 


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