dwj-digest (Diana Wynne Jones) V1 #734

Sarah sarah-neko at dove.gen.nz
Wed Nov 5 15:36:35 EST 2003


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:07:08 -0700
> From: Otter Perry <ottertee at silverwinggraphics.com>
> Subject: Re: Susan Cooper
>
> Sally Odgers wrote:
>
>> From "niggardly", I expect. And the "nog" bit is the same process that
>> turned Mag into Meg.
>
> A Washington, DC, councilman had to resign after using the
> word 'niggardly' in a meeting.  Some things you can't say
> even if they _don't_ mean what they sound like they might
> mean -- at least in DC.

The worst part is that, in effect, he had to apologise for people 
feeling offended because they were ignorant. Would this ever happen 
outside America?

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:13:43 -0700
> From: Otter Perry <ottertee at silverwinggraphics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rowling and elitists
>
> Ven wrote:
>
>> Personally if sadism was the primary motivation I
>> would't want such a person anywhere near my
>> innards! I wouldn't feel able to trust them to do
>> the best for me rather than what they would most
>> enjoy.
>
> Try 'King's Row' -- there's a novel written by I can't
> remember whom and a movie with <ewwwwwww> Ronald Reagan
> in it, in a supporting role.  Anyway, there's a doctor
> who's a sadist [among other personality flaws] and you
> certainly wouldn't have wanted him anywhere near you.

And, although it was a burlesque portrayal rather than a realistic 
psychological study, I think we can all agree that Orin Scrivello DDS, 
the sadistic dentist from 'Little Shop of Horrors,' was not really A 
Good Thing.

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed,  5 Nov 2003 14:38:52 +1100
> From: Emma Comerford <emmaco at tpg.com.au>
> Subject: Re: OT: L M Montgomery
>
> Quoting Otter Perry <ottertee at silverwinggraphics.com>:
>
> It always takes me ages to admit that I'm not like a character I 
> admire.  For example, I wish I
> was calm and centred like Bujold's Ekaterin, but know that I'm much 
> more flighty and excitable.
> Although I'm only 23, so I'm not Ekaterin's age yet...

I don't usually think I am like characters I like, or rather, I don't 
usually like characters who I think are like me. I get enough of me 
every day without reading about her.
Did that make sense?

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:40:34 +0100
> From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S2F0YXJpbmEgSGrkcnBl?= 
> <head_overheels at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: dwj-digest (Diana Wynne Jones) V1 #733
>
>>> Well, we all love Howl... those who are aligned that way, anyway. 
>>> Any of
>>> you
>>> men out there fancy Sophie?
>
> *cough* One doesn't have to be a *man* to fancy Sophie... Personally, 
> I've
> fancied Howl and Sophie both for a very long time.

*cough* Yer, I second that emotion.

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:20:45 -0000
> From: "Charles Butler" <hannibal at thegates.fsbusiness.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: dwj-digest (Diana Wynne Jones) V1 #731
>
> Sarah:
> (snip, you read it all before)
>
> Me:
> I quite see that last bit, but for myself I always hear Howl as Welsh, 
> and
> (Old) South Welsh at that. It is quite a good accent for sounding
> supercilious in, really, and what with Howl keeping up his rugby 
> playing and
> I doubt that he would have ditched the accent of his fathers - he'd 
> have
> been wiping away more than a tear of hiraeth if he'd scrummed down 
> with his
> Welsh team mates sounding like Peter Wimsey.

Well, to rescue my theory, he could just be one of those people who 
adapts his accent to his circumstances; he probably sounds much 
Welsh-er when speaking to Megan or his old rugby friends than he would 
talking to the King of Ingary; unless of course he decided to 
*exaggerate* the Welsh accent for exoticism value. It depends on 
whether anyone in that world has an accent similar to Welsh and what 
cultural connotations that carries (cf. Joris in 'The Homeward 
Bounders' having a 'Kathayack twang' that sounds to Jamie's relatives 
like an American accent). Thinking far too deeply about this now. It's 
just that New Zealand is one of those countries where, for many years, 
being able to approximate a middle to upper class South English accent 
was one of the hallmarks of social success; this has changed as the 
nation has developed a *little* more of an independent identity, but 
the idea of adapting one's accent to have a certain effect on the 
people who hear you is still quite potent in our minds.
I'm probably not familiar enough with Welsh accents to have a strong 
opinion about this, anyway. I couldn't imitate one for the life of me.

> (I agree that his degree is real, though - and I think he got it at
> Aberystwyth.)

Which I always think is one of the prettier of the world's placenames.
Certainly compared with placenames like the prize Australian duo of 
Mount Buggery and Mount Despair.
One wonders which came first. Despair *because* of buggery... or 
despair alleviated by buggery?

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:48:27 +1100
> From: "Sally Odgers" <sodgers at tassie.net.au>
> Subject: Re: Elite[s] and elitists, Cooper and Others
>
>> Something of a Welsh theme in today's posts...
>
> And here was me reading something about Catherine Zeta Jones.... What 
> is
> Zeta, BTW? An added first name or half a last name?

I believe I read that it's her grandmother's first name but she uses it 
as half a last name to make herself more distinctive. I mean, you come 
out of Wales called Catherine Jones, you're not going to really stick 
in people's minds. The uncommon Z of Zeta acts as a hook.
Howell Zeta Jenkins wouldn't have sounded quite as zippy.

> ODWJM - what a lot of Joneses there must be in Wales...

Like Smiths in England or Nguyens in Vietnam, one gathers.

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:16:35 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
> From: "A J Liddle" <a.j.liddle at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: dwj-digest (Diana Wynne Jones) V1 #731
>
>  =0D
> What about Rhys Ifans( Notting HIll etc)  for Howl? I am of course 
> slight=
> ly
> biased in that we were good friends for years, but I think he could do 
> it=
> =2E
> Don't be misled by a lot of the roles he has played as an "idiot" - 
> I've
> seen him in Shakespeare etc and he's a damn fine actor. And Welsh. My 
> vot=
> e
> goes with anyone who can actually speak my language!=0D
> =0D
> Amanda

Well... his Welshness credentials are impeccable... but I remember 
finding him fearsomely ugly. (Sorry Mr Ifans. Sorry Mr Ifans' friend.)

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:21:50 -0000
> From: "Rowland, Jennifer A B" <jennifer.rowland at imperial.ac.uk>
> Subject: RE: OT: L. M. Montgomery
>
> Sallyo wrote:
>> Seriously, which *female* DJW would you happily collect in
>> another life?
>
> I like Tanaqui- and think how useful to go out with a weaver, you'd 
> never have to buy clothes again.

Would you pronounce her name Tanakwee or Tanakee? I've never felt sure, 
and I'd better work it out before I ask her on a date.

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:54:21 +0000
> From: minnow at belfry.org.uk
> Subject: OT: Nig-nog, and insults
>
> Many thanks to all who leapt forward with stuff about this.  I am left
> wondering whether in fact the offensive word "nigger" may have had
> overtones of "nig-nog" when it was coined, though obviously it looks 
> as if
> it came straight from "negro".  That's one I am unlikely ever to be 
> sure
> of, though.

Well, when it was first used in English it tended to be 'neger' or 
'neeger.' Perhaps the vowel sound changed due to the influence of 
'nig-nog.'

> But aren't words wonderful.
>
> Apart from friends who use "colourful language" at work to avoid 
> offending
> their workmates' various sensibilities ("dratted scarlet printer!" 
> "that
> purple copier has eaten my original again!") I knew a man a while ago 
> who
> used plant-life as oaths.  He once called someone a "lesser common
> polypody" and nearly got a punch on the snoot for it.
>
> As for calling a skinny drunken girl a "scalene martlet", that is 
> asking
> for trouble!

Because a martlet is a legless bird? Clever.
I wish more people cursed like Captain Haddock.

@}->-->---
E you later,
Déesse
(the artist formerly known as Sarah-neko)

http://www.airandangels.com/
Air and Angels Anime Shrines


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