: Re: Miles and Hamlet - No major spoilers (was Re: More on Martha Wells)

Ven vendersleighc at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 17 21:20:47 EDT 2003

I wrote in response to Hallie

<I had decided you must
>mean Memory for a different reason. I was
>thinking of Simon Illyan as representing the
>"dead" father (he is sort of around as his own
>ghost) and thus Spoiler as a combination of
>Gertrude and Claudius.>

and a lot more besides

Hallie replied

:-)  I don't know why this way of using Spoiler 
seems so funny to me.>

Well I kinda meant it to be...... 

<It's all the same Spoiler throughout your post, 
right?  Otherwise 
I've got this seriously muddled.>


<Aren't expandable 'theories' (and I 
use the word in its loosest possible sense!) 
wonderful ?  You came up 
with all sorts of things which hadn't crossed my 
mind (and I use that 
word in its loosest possible sense also.)  :-)   
Happily Ivan's 
mother had a better sense of timing than 
Gertrude, as I really don't 
think I could have stood Ivan's going off the 
emotional deep edge as 
well as Miles in one book!>

I find that once I start finding these kind of
connections its hard to stop. Very much a
question of what I am reading into the text of
course but I predict that LMB does know Hamlet at
least as well as I do whether she intended or
even noticed any connection!

>I'm straining my knowledge of Hamlet, but I seem
>to remember a late scene between Gertrude and
>Hamlet where she is trying to get him to accept
>the status quo and behaving in a kind of
>seductive manner (but this may have been the
>actors' reading of the scene) which reminds me 
>when Spoiler tempts Miles.

I think it was likely the actors or director who 
went for that 
reading, and would say fair enough, unless it was

the <censors own 
language firmly> Zeffirelli film version, in 
which case I just have 
to restrain myself or all sorts of unacceptable 
opinions (starting 
with 'Bad!') will fall out.  In that one, in the 
'closet scene' 
Gertrude grabs Hamlet and initiates a passionate 
kiss, which does at 
least have the merit of explaining Hamlet's 
terror when his father's 
ghost appears!  But I find the Freudian 
explanation of the play 
fairly boring anyway, so am not greatly taken 
with adding in 
Gertrude's returning the feeling (would that be a

Jocastal complex?).>

I have a feeling that I'm conflating a fairly
recent TV production with an OU programme
analysing and workshopping various scenes. It
wasn't Zefferelli at any rate but somebody aware
of his reading must have come into it.


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