"Star Wars" despots vs. "Star Trek" populists

Chris R sfa_ok2001 at yahoo.co.uk
Mon May 27 17:33:39 EDT 2002

 --- Jon Noble <jon_p_noble at yahoo.com> wrote: > 
> A very large wodge of fantasy is Fascist in its
> essential political outlook, even if its creators or
> readers aren't. 
I think to say a v.l.w of fantasy is being a bit
specific. I'd say rather that a v.l.w of fantasy is
essentially neo-platonic in outlook, fascism being
related to neo-platonism, though not avowedly. Tolkien
himself definitely harks back to a Golden Age, but not
all of it was feudal - the Shire is distinctly
anarchist. And he believes in benevolent despots (i'd
call this utopianism, not fascism - if you want to
read LOTR allegorically, Mordor/fascism is an icky
perversion of his warm fuzzy utopian neo-p society),
and the good guys are prettier than the bad guys. And
we can thank ol' J.R.R. for making an unconscious
neo-platonist outlook part of the conventions of
fantasy. Even Lois McMaster Bujold, who is way too
sophisticated to swallow that stuff, had to follow the
conventions with Curse of Chalion. (Which is partly
why I prefer the Vorkosigan Saga.)
 > And
> > if they accept the MArxist dialectic, then aren't
> > they
> > in trouble, coz neo-feudalism will lead inevitably
> > to
> > capitalism then to communism?
> A Marxist might argue so, but to a Fascist this is
> not
> necessarily the case. True fascists are no friends
> of
> capitalism and their goal would be to prevent that
> stage of economic development arising. 
Well, sucks to Hitler coz he's logically incoherent!
(nyah nyah nyah)If fascists don't like capitalism coz
it leads to communism, they accept the historical
dialectic, which means to be consistent they have to
accept that feudalism leads to capitalism. Or say that
the dialectic only started once capitalism got going
which ignores Marx's whole empirical foundation.
Token OBDWJ - because of the essay I'm trying to write
at the moment, I'm currently thinking of DWJ as a
social-duty theorist. Jamie Hamilton, Mitt Mittson,
Gabriel Witt - sacrifice of self-interest for social

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