re Deep Secret -- Fairytales

Ven vendersleighc at
Fri Mar 1 20:30:26 EST 2002

Hallie said

> Ven:
> >My last rereading of DS, after seeing what 
everyone had to say was
> >enlightening. I was concentrating on two 
things, the fairy tale
> >resonances and the way the various magical 
manipulations played out.
> Enlightening indeed, Ven - this is great!

Thanks, Ven takes a bow.

> >On fairy tales: Dorian and Hallie were talking

about Beauty and the
> >Beast from the perspective of the characters. 
I think there is also
> >similarity of theme. B & TB is one of a whole 
series of similar
> >from Cupid and Psyche to the Black Bull Of 
Norroway (a particular
> >favourite of mine). In all of them disaster 
ensues when the heroine
> >persuaded to pry into her husband's true 
nature -- to spy on him.
> And East of the Sun, West of the Moon - the one

which Polly despises,
> right?  :)  You put B&tB in with this lot 
though?  I'd have thought
it was
> an important element of the story that Beauty 
doesn't do the prying.

> >Secrets, of course, are what the book is all 
about. It's Rupert
trying to
> >find the next Emperor and a new Magid, both of

which require him to
> >into people's real identities and true nature.

And   Maree and Nick
> >are following Rupert around and finding out 
what he's up to.
> Yes, that's the bit I'd noticed, and it's why I

included Bluebeard in
> list of fairy-tales that resonate with DS.  And

that female
> curiosity" from Bluebeard was an important 
element of all the Gothic
> novels.  (Tangentially, I'd never thought of 
Sophie's cleaning as
> same thing before - and it's yet another of the

wonderful spins put
> fairy-tales in Howl.)

She might have found that stash of hearts Howl 
was supposed to have!
there was a heap of bosides to be found in ds


> >
> >I do think the most overt parallels are with 
The Sleeping Beauty.
> >I'm not the only/first one to say so but I've 
lost track of who did
> >this originally -- I think this discussion 
started soemwhere in the
> >Babe thread (Deborah, did you say something a 
while ago about the
> >archives getting a search facility 
would be nice). A quick
> >recap: the SB role does to a certain extent 
fit both their
> >It also resonates with the idea of the 
imprisoned heirs, only let
> >when it's time for them to rule, this is sort 
of the dark side of
> >There are a plethora of barriers and mazes in 
DS. Trying to take
them in
> >order:
> >
> >Maree's sharp fingernails and bushlike hair, 
seemingly part of a
> >strategy of retreat from, if not outright 
avoidance, of human
> >Bristol's one way system, augmented by magic, 
which delays their
> >meeting, then Wantchester's road network, 
which prevents Maree and
> >finding the Hotel.
> >
> >The receptionist's intransigence and the hotel

computer combining to
> >Maree a room at first.
> >
> >Gram White's workings at the Hotel, which turn

the whole place into
> >maze.
> >
> >Aglaia Uglaia, the spiky bush goddess of the 
empire, personifies
> >physical barriers and the barriers people put 
up within. The
sequence in
> >Maree's hotel room where Rupert sees the 
thorns growing through
> >computer, her bed and even her teddybear is 
one of the most
disturbing in
> >Dwj. We can see the teddy bear as 
reperesenting Maree and what the
> >Goddess wants to do to her. And the thorn that

pierces the bear
> >the shuttle that puts Sleeping Beauty into her

> >
> >Maree's trip to Babylon, saving both her 
father and herself
> >the barrier between life and death.
> I really like that barrier and maze theme 
you've worked out, Ven. 
> Especially with the vine-growing magic Rupert 
worked at the 
> bus-station which you pointed out in a previous

> >
I forgot to put this in. yes the bus station 
barriers which trap the
car shopulfd be on this list

> >Finally, in reference to Cinderella, it's 
striking that, if we take
> >sfcon to be the ball, it's Rupert trying to 
stop her going there
> >the same working as to lure the other magid 
candidates) and Janine
> >wicked "stepmother" who wants to get her 
there. (I've got more to
> >aboput this later in a post to be titled DS 
--Intentions and The
> >Dance)
> Oh good.

I got half way through this and the thread of my 
argument went all
frayed............... hopefully I can do 
something with it.


.......... almost everyone is boring some kind of reader 
or other.

Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet

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