Wined vs Winned

Philip.Belben at Philip.Belben at
Tue Jul 18 04:20:19 EDT 2000

Sent this last night but it seemed to run into name srever problems.  Oh well,
try again....

Paul and Tanaqui have both replied to this, and I'm not sure I fully understand
either of them.


>>> It's definitely the sort of "wind" pronounced "wined" and a
>>> device, rather than wind. But making the "winned" sort of wind a
>>> device is *so* DWJ!
>> Why is it a device (I take it you mean "some sort of pulley" like
>> Michael)?  Or rather, why is it "definitely" a device?
> "Device" can also mean "a plan, scheme, or trick", according to my
> OED. See also "leave one to one's own devices".
> In this sense, "And find what wind serves to advance an honest mind"
> would mean "and discover a method by which an honest mind can be
> found".

And Tanaqui:

> Hang on, I said that DWJ's "wind" was a device: I don't mean a pulley!
> Deep reading in Donne pushes me to this conclusion. He works in terms of
> devices, hermetica, alchemical systems. I am *not* claiming that it's a
> more the sort of metaphysical device that would leap to mind if you had read
> Donne rather than the DWJ spell. Perhaps Jonson was right, "That Done, for not
> keeping of an accent, deserved hanging" but the metaphysical usage of learning
> and allusion does often set us guessing.
> I think it parses "find what peculiar technique would actually bring forward
> honesty". I argue that this fits with the direction and composition of the
> original poem. It certainly fits with the invocations of other mental changes
> (hearing mermaids, rejecting the burn of jealousy, why not finding out how to
> impose honesty?).

Yes, I got that meaning of device.  But not the connection with "wind".

What, of the meanings one associates with the tetragrammaton "wind", is the one
Donne is using here?

Or to look at it another way, to what sort of device, other than a
pulley/windlass (or a blower), is Donne justified in attaching the word "wind"?

Not that I think Donne necessarily needs that justification.  But Tanaqui does,
to be able to assert that it is "definitely" a device.

Paul again:

> (Personally, though, I still think it's wind as in "a wind in the
> road" or as in "you'll wind up in prison if you don't watch out".)

That is closer, I must admit - a metaphor.  Translate it as "by what twist might
an honest mind be advanced" and I begin to understand you.

>> Wind pronounced Wined, but still meaning that which blows, was a
>> common _literary_ device, up until ? the early 17th century, (when
>> pronunciation was still fairly in flux) and again in the 19th
>> century (romantic movement and nostalgia for an earlier age).
> Okay, then; but even given that, why should meteorological phenomena
> have anything to do with the case?

No particular reason except that I was trying to explore what Tanaqui might have
meant by her cryptic reference to a device.

>> (I liked the way Howl's nephew (Neil?) made the connection, through
>> "finned", with submarines.  I'm not sure why Sophie and Michael
>> accepted it so readily, though)
> Obviously, submarines exist in Ingary. Duh. ;)

:-) Duh to you too!  The technology available to the inghabitants of Porthaven
(which seems to be more than just a fishing village, especially if the name is
significant) doesn't seem to me capable of producing submersible craft.  The
royal wizards might manage it, but their art is hardly familiar to most of the
populace.  So it was actually a serious question.

Philip  (Who has just noticed that he typed "inghabitants" in the last
paragraph, but thinks that is so ingarian that he doesn't want to change it).

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